Meeting Minutes

Members Present:

Charlie, Becky, Shelby, and Hailey Babcock, Boetel Family, Don LeClair, Rick Micola, Tom Garcia, Don and James Munzer, Scott, Lynn, and Sydney Nixon, Glenn McConnell, John Tash, Steve Ingles, Bill Blandford, Matthew Grotts, Gordon and Sheri Grotts, Jay and Sandra Kopycinski, Ron and Brenda Couch, Joe Lorden, Ted, Loran, and Jake Gersztyn, Ed Lyons, Bruce Browell, Bob Trenton, Eric Marble, Tom and Erlinda Ellis, Neil Handcock, Lori Oachs, and Dan Romanenko.

President Boetel called meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. The pledge of allegiance followed. Several guests were present and welcomed: Mike and Anita Chatfield, Ranger Dave Sibrel, Lance Comstock, and Wayne and April Latero.

Old Business

Treasury Report- We currently have $2831.00 in our checking account.

Newsletter- Make sure to get any address changes to Scott so that he can get your copy of Trail Tales to you, without any delay. It was mentioned that Sam Katzdorn has moved, we need your new address Sam so we can get the newsletter to you. If anyone knows the address or can have Sam give Scott a call so we can get the newsletter to him.

Trip Reports-

Lower Terminator- ZJ Adventure- some met at 5:00 p.m. while others showed up at 7:00 p.m. Some parked at the end of the trail while others braved the trail with stock vehicles? The ZJ had to be rolled over approximately five times to get it away from the main trail and then it was decided that a cutting torch was what was needed. Unfortunately, one was not available. All in all it was a fun evening. Luckily there wasn’t any additional vehicle breakage. We are not sure of the Jeep status now.

4th of July Weekend with the Gersztyns - Great time, Scott and Lynn had a flat tire, Loren won the Mucking contest for women.

Jamboree Information-

The Lo-Rangers have volunteered to be in charge of the Tech Inspection. Ron and Brenda Couch will be coordinating the volunteers who will be working Tech.

Future Runs-

Dave Hickman brought "Big Iron" to the meeting to show off. It rolls off the trailer bearing 44’ Boggers. He will be going on a run Thursday to give it a test. Meet at the Wendy’s in Fountain Hills at 6:30 p.m. if you would like to see what 44’ Boggers can do in Sycamore Creek.

Intermission - 40/40/20 Raffle - Tickets were unavailable so we will have to do raffle next month. Meeting called back to order at 7:45 p.m. after much talk and bench wheelin’.

New Business

August 12, 2000, Trail 42 is being lead by Matthew Grotts. He wants everyone to know that brush damage is minimal and the water level is low. He will begin the trip from the intersection of Cave Creek Rd. and Bartlett Dam Road at 8:00 a.m. We hope to see a large turnout, this is Matthew’s first time leading a trip.

BLM Letters need to be written. They are in the process of changing the Off-Highway Vehicle access. When you write your letter be clear and concise about what you want. It would be a good idea to say, "Do not restrict Off-Highway Vehicle access to existing roads and trails." Become proactive! The letters need to be in by August 31, 2000. You can e-mail or snail mail your letters. For more information log on to which has a link to the BLM Website.

New Members were sworn in and seconded by the club. Dave Sibrel, Mike Chatfield, Wayne Laternal, and Bill and Lisa Mish were the new members who were voted in.

Keep your eyes open for a two fold flyer with the latest information about the Jamboree and its registration process. Sandee is still looking for volunteers to lead trails.

Motion was made to close the meeting. Seconded. President Boetel pounded the hammer to bring the meeting to a close.

Respectfully submitted,

Becky Babcock

Trip report: Terminator Clean-up

July15, by Scott Nixon

People in attendance: Mr Ed, Zane Morgan, John Edmonds, and lots of guests and members of AZ Virtual Jeep club, other Lo-Rangers?

I was unfortunately out of town for this run, and nobody submitted a trip report so this will be short in both length and detail. Purpose of the trip was to remove an abandoned Jeep Wagoneer from the middle of the trail. Previous vandals had left it upside down and stripped of all usable parts.

Mr Ed and Zane worked their way down the trail to bring their winches to bear on the wreck. If you've never seen Zane rock-crawl his full size extended cab Ford truck, you missed quite a show I'm sure. After quite a bit of winching, dragging and rolling, they managed to get it a ways down the trail before deciding it was a job better suited for a cutting torch. A group was supposed to show up on Sunday to finish the job, but no status report was available.

Trip report: Rubicon

July 15 - July 23, by Linda Luik

[Editors note: since I didn't have any good club trip reports, I threw in Linda's report (heavily hacked, sorry Linda there wasn't room for it all!) from her recent Rubicon trip. Aspiring authors take note: I always welcome submissions!]

Just got back from running the Rubicon Trail with a group of ZJs from the zj-list newsgroup.

July 15: Left Phoenix around noon.

July 16: Drove up US95 to South Lake Tahoe.

July 17: Decided to take a tour of Yosemite National Park.

July 18: Today we finally start 4-wheeling! I was up at 6am looking for a cb antenna cable for one of the TJs. I keep a 8ft spare under the seat. Our pull out time was 8:30am and we got rolling on time --- well everyone except me! The ZJ picked this moment to kill its ignition coil. Fortunately I carry a spare. The early 4.0l ZJs have a problem keeping coils. There's a TSB out on this, but I think the cure is to replace the coil. It was an easy replacement, but in the process I managed to lose one of the bolts that holds to coil in place. No problem. Someone said there was a auto parts store in town. We took off for the trail. I stopped at the Napa store and bought a new bolt and replaced it there in the parking lot. We noted that the serpentine belt looked a little chewed. Apparently that's where the missing bolt landed! I didn't think anything of it since I just bought a new belt and had it with me. We took off for Ice House Rd, the main road to the Rubicon Trailhead. About halfway to the trailhead, the belt shredded itself. I guess the bolt hung around long enough to destroy the belt. Anyway, this was strike two! No problem! I got out the replacement belt to find out it was the wrong part number and wouldn't fit. The folks that stayed back raced ahead to the rest of the group to locate a spare belt. I sat by the Jeep for three hours and finally started reassembling it and decided that I would have a ranger call in a tow truck and abort the trip. At 2pm, Kevin returned with a used belt that fit. What a relief! And we raced back to the trailhead. Kevin installed his magnetic anti-pinstriping material on the sides of his ZJ while I aired down. The rest of the group was still there because a Ford truck had had a major breakdown and took awhile to get repaired. We all made our introductions: Kevin, Tom, JR, Neal & family, Jim and Mary. The first obstacle (the guardian) was a very steep rock face with a water feature and enough ground up rock to make it nearly impossible to climb. I managed to climb after taking the tire pressure down to 12-lbs. From here on for the next three days was obstacle after obstacle. Up steep ledges. Down even steeper ledges, rock gardens, water features, and off-camber smooth granite. We camped about 100 yards from the Little Sluice in the dark (after 8pm) the first night. The group ahead of us decided to run the Little Sluice at night. I was the tail gunner for our group for most of the trail.

July 19: We got on the trail about 9am after a leisurely breakfast. Tom brought along an inverter and a blender and made smoothies for everyone. We heard that the group ahead of us had trouble the night before and had camped out in the Little Sluice so we gave them as much time as we could. By the time we got there they were still making repairs so we opted to go around the obstacle thinking that it would probably take most of the day to get 5 ZJs through it. It took us until noon to traverse the long route around the Little Sluice -- about 1/4-mile. We let the group that was ahead of us (made their repairs and was back on the trail) and a group from Washington State go by us since we were moving slower than the CJ/TJ/YJs on the trail. In this section we ran the bypass around the Old Big Sluice just to shave off time. The only difference was about 50 feet in length. The alternate was not much different in terrain. Jim and I lost valve stems and had to replace tires. It took the next 6 hours to go from the Little Sluice to Buck Island Lake, a distance of about 2.5 miles. Again. more of the same: Up steep ledges. Down even steeper ledges, rock gardens, water features, and off-camber smooth granite. There is a campground at the lake, and a nice little stream running below the dam. The other half of our group had camped out near the top of the dam. We set up camp below the dam since there was more room. Before turning in we agreed to get an early start so that we could. Kevin decided to join the other group for the rest of the trail. Now we had only 4 vehicles in our group.

July 20: Our last day on the trail. By now members of my group were starting to look at the maps and try to figure out if we could get back to pavement before dark. None of us had ever driven the trail before and we didn't have good maps. All we knew was that the tough part of the trail was about 12 miles long and we had gone about 5 miles in the last two days. We decided that the other part of our group, Chris and the TJs, were spending too much time making repairs so we decided to get ahead of them and stay ahead of them. It was a good decision. Several hours later, when we arrived at the Jamboree Campground, we got word they were less than 100 yards from their Buck Island Lake campsite. Chris broke a control arm and Kevin crushed his gas tank skid plate, punctured a shock, and tore a control arm mount off the body. This held up the other group for a few hours. I think we moved a little faster on this leg of the journey. It's hard to tell. We made it to the Big Sluice just before lunch. There are no alternates for the Big Sluice. It is a rock garden made of refrigerator-sized rocks with limited room in between to move followed by a hard left and a very steep ledge (4.5 ft approx.). I found that I could easily steer the Jeep to the right, but not so easily to the left. It took both me and JR to turn the steering wheel enough so I could safely make the drop-off. After the drop off is another 50 yards of rock garden (bowling ball to laundry basket sized boulders). It took about 2 hours to get the 4 ZJs through. After that there was more of the same: Up steep ledges, down even steeper ledges, rock gardens, water features, and off-camber smooth granite. We made it to the Jamboree Campground around 3pm. There was a mud pit in the middle of the trail and a dry rock crawling alternate. Since there was a variety of choices, none of which required any intense spotting, we picked our own routes. I took the original route, which had me go through a very narrow off-camber slot (similar to upper Ajax). I had Jim on the roof rack to keep the ZJ from going into the wall. Jim decided to take the route that followed the edge of the mud pit. Earlier on, Jim was suspecting that he had some steering problems. These all came to light when he dropped into the water, hit an underwater root, and tore the steering box off the sub-frame. Wonderful! Tom and Jim attached winch cables in order to tug Jim's ZJ across the mud pit (about 100 ft long). It took about 0.5 hours to get him through. My first suggestion was to use the winch cable to brace the broken box and throw any other means of bracing it at it too -- hopefully he would be able to drive the rest of the trail without any trouble. While the rest of the group was trying to figure out what to do I went over and talked with the Washington group. It turned out that there is a caretaker that stays in the Jamboree Campground during the milder months. I can't remember his name, but he and some other campers went out of their way to get us back on the trail as quickly as possible, even though they kept hinting that we ought to stay out for another night. In the end, Jim's steering box was held in place by a couple of hose clamps and the winch cable (but none of that was my idea) and we were back on the trail around 5pm. Tom gave the caretaker an "access for all" t-shirt and JR gave him some cigars. We had 3 hours of daylight left. For those of you who haven't been the Rubicon Trail, the last major obstacle is Cadillac Hill --- which is more of the same: Up steep ledges, down even steeper ledges, rock gardens, water features, and off-camber smooth granite. Jim, Neal, and (maybe) Tom had to use their winches on at least on obstacle. We reached the top 3 hours later as the sun was setting and we still had several miles of trail to go. The caretaker said that once you reach the top of the hill the trail starts getting easier. It does. There are less steep ledges and rock gardens. It eventually turns into a smooth dirt road. It took us until almost midnight before we reached pavement again. The other group caught up with us. We said our farewells and went to find hotel rooms and camping spots.

July 21-23: Went to air up my tires and found a second valve stem had been crushed but the tire held air. Found a Big-O store in S. Lake Tahoe, got it fixed and headed for home. Uneventful trip.

Thoughts on the Rubicon:

* Jim and Neal tried using dry ice to keep their food cold. The dry ice didn't last and they ran out of ice on the third day. There is something to be said about block ice. It might take up space, but it sure lasts longer.

* Always bring twice as much food and water as you think you need. This
has always been my rule. Along with don't bring foods that contain any meat or dairy products unless they are canned/dried and can be used all at once. Fresh food is great, but takes up a lot of space which is better used for beer.

* Make sure any spare parts you bring along fit. Losing the serpentine belt almost caused me to abort my vacation.

* Keep the heavy stuff low. Almost every vehicle on the trail had stuff in roof racks. The off-camber granite sections are really slippery and the added weight in the roof racks made for some interesting moments.

* Three days isn't long enough. I would suggest 4-6 days instead of pushing it like we did. Some of the breakage could have been avoided. I met a local couple in a Samuari that told me that there's is usually at least one group on the trail any given day during the summer. So if you don't have the parts or expertise, chances are someone will come along that does. In the case of Jim's steering box, if it could have been welded, there were people in the Jamboree Campground that could have done it. I know it's great to be totally self-sufficient, but sometimes it is impossible.

* A small group on the trail was really nice. After you do this trail once, you kind of wonder how the Jeepers Jamboree and the Jeep Jamboree USA can manage 100+ vehicles on this trail all at once. We had a trail that was pretty clear of rock ramps (thank you, Pirates of the Rubicon, for unstacking ramps and closing unsafe alternate routes -- pre-jamboree maintenance) and the couple of ramps that we made we took the time to get rid of when we were done. The folks in the campground said that the trail gets pretty smooth at the Jamborees after about the first 20 or so

* I rate the trail 3.5-4.0 on the ASA4WDC scale. The Little Sluice would not have changed the rating, just the amount of time to do the trail.

Editors Corner

Wow, this is my kind of newsletter, one where somebody did all the writing! Between Becky's meeting minutes, Linda's lengthy Rubicon report and Johns detailed trail overview there is hardy room for my ranting.

That's fine with me, I've got plenty to do getting the Chevy ready for John's Canyon trip. If you can swing a week away, I would strongly encourage you to start packing now. I guarantee this will be a trip you will never forget. The Arizona Strip is some of the most beautiful, desolate, and isolated country you will ever visit. Once the feds lock it up, it's gone forever. Hiking there is not an option!

Scott Nixon,



Calendar of Events

August 12: FR42, trip leader is Mat Grotts. Meet at intersection of Bartlett Dam road and Cave Creek road at 8AM. Trail is lots of loose sandy hill climbs, rutted washes, and gnarly off-camber crawls. Awesome views from up high. Trail is 3.0 or so, no rocks and not much brush. If you're IFS front and open rear, bring tow hooks and a strap! One of my favorites.

August 19: Night run to Terminator, trip leader is Rick Micola. Meet at dirt "parking lot" west off I17 at Table Mesa road exit at 6:30PM. Come play on the rocks while it's (relatively) cool.

August 19: ASA4WDC Quarterly at the lamplighter RV park recreation building in star valley from 12-5:00 PM take hwy 87 to Payson, turn right on hwy to 260 to Showlow. 4 miles from Payson is the little town of Star Valley. The rv park is on the south side of hwy 260 (255701 east hwy 260), right across from circle K follow the "ASA4WDC" signs to the back of the RV park, in the new section is the rec. building on the east end of the RV park. Follow signs for parking.

September 2-9: Marty will be in Moab, let him know if you want to come along or meet up there.

September 17-23: Week long trip to the north rim of the Grand Canyon. Trip leader is John Tash. See elsewhere in this issue for further details.

October: Jamboree pre-runs?

October 18-22: Jamboree!!!

November: Nothing currently planned. Let's hear some suggestions.

December: Possible Christmas tree hunt and/or snow run?

December: Club Christmas Party.

September Trail Overview

By John Tash

What: The upcoming club run of September 17-23 in the newly designated Grand Canyon - Parashant National Monument.

Where: It is located in the western most part of the AZ strip. Its borders are Kaibab Nat. Forrest; Colorado River, Nevada, and Utah. The two closest cities are Las Vegas and St. George, Utah.

Route: Will be published next month, or contact me for a copy. It will guide you to our first nights camp.

Scope: At present I have twenty-six 7.5-minute USGS Topo maps and it still doesn't cover the entire national forest. For the club run we will be using 16 maps, covering over a thousand square miles.

Remoteness: Considered one of the most remote areas in the continental U.S. Calling 911 won't cut it. Cell phone usage is doubtful due to lack of cell relay towers. We will truly be on our own.

Beauty: Many stunning views of the Colorado River from several 6000ft plateaus as well as deep, massive canyons. Other features include old mines, sawmills, cabins, and ruins of a fort. Bring your camera. If the feds close roads/trails here, like they have done with the Escalante Staircase National Monument, we may never get to see this area again.

You won't see: $20 per person/ per day fees for the privilege of being herded around on buses like cattle amidst swarms of tourists. Chances are good that we won't see anyone here for the entire trip.

Weather: The best seasons are March-June and September-November. These months offer milder temperatures and are less prone to thunderstorms or snow. As we all know, storms can occur quite suddenly at high altitudes. Roads/trails in this region have a notorious reputation in wet weather. Even class I roads quickly become totally impassable for any type of vehicle until they dry out. IF IT RAINS WE ARE OUT OF THERE!

Roads/Trails: As you can see by the total off-road miles, a good percentage of the time we will be on Class I roads, but there are a fair number of Class II also. There is a 5-mile section of Class III as we climb to the peak of Mt Dellenbaugh at 7,072ft. In addition, there are two separate sections of somewhere between class III and class IV, as well as a very tight hairpin turn between the two sections as we climb out of a wash to the top of Grand Wash Cliffs. This is a cliff-side trail that BLM has advised we not try, as they have given up attempting to keep it open. Wonder how hard they tried? Sounds just like what we're looking for! Hopefully, there are a variety of trails to please everyone.

Fuel: At one point we will be 130 miles from the closest fuel. If this is where your gas tank runs dry it is a major problem. For this reason, it is highly recommended that a minimum of 40 gallons of fuel be on board.

Water: Since we will be in the boonies for 5 days and 6 nights, it is highly recommended that there be a minimum of 2 gallons per adult, per day. For 2 adults this would be 20 gallons.

Road/trail closures: BLM says all the existing trails are open for now. Rumors persist that they may have to review this in the future and look at closing some of them.

Campfires: BLM says that since there has been no rain the open fire ban is still in effect. This means no fires of any type. The only form of fuel allowed is pressurized bottles of propane for use in grills, stoves, and lanterns. By September they anticipate that the band will be lifted. Periodically, updates will be announced.

Reference source: Grand Canyon Jeep Trails - North Rim by Roger Mitchell. I stumbled on this book while in a library and quickly realized it was the best trail book I've ever found. Most of this trip has been taken directly from Mitchell's book.

For further information: Contact me at (480) 802-9089.


Got a question about the club? Wondering where or when the next club meeting or run is? Planning a wildcat or pre-run and looking for company? Call Marty! He welcomes calls at home during the day while he plays Mr. Mom. Give him a ring at (480)-926-3977.

For sale

4 BFG 295-75-R16 AT's (33.5"x11.5") on 16"x8" chrome steel wheels, 8 lug, 40% tread left, 1 285-75-R16 AT on same rim as spare, $400, Call the Babcocks at 480-812-9101.

Now that Dave Hickman has his new toy, he's selling his old one. Unfortunately, I didn't grab a flyer from him at the meeting, so if you're interested give him a call at 480-883-1224.

Joke of the Month

The British Military writes OFR's (Officer Fitness Reports). The form used for Royal Navy and Marines fitness reports is the S206. Following are actual excerpts taken from people's "206's"....

- His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of curiosity.

- I would not breed from this Officer.

- This Officer is really not so much of a has-been, but more of a definitely-won't-be.

- When she opens her mouth, it seems that this is only to change whichever foot was previously in there.

- He has carried out each and every one of his duties to HIS entire satisfaction.

- He would be out of his depth in a car-park puddle.

- Technically sound, but socially impossible.

- This Officer reminds me very much of a gyroscope - always spinning around at a frantic pace, but not really going anywhere.

- This young lady has delusions of adequacy.

- When he joined my ship, this Officer was something of a grandpa; since then he has aged considerably.

- This Medical Officer has used my ship to carry his genitals from port to port, and my officers to carry him from bar to bar.

- Since my last report he has reached rock bottom, and has started to dig.

- She sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to achieve them.

- He has the wisdom of youth, and the energy of old age.

- This Officer should go far - and the sooner he starts, the better.

- In my opinion this pilot should not be authorized to fly below 250 feet.

- The only ship I would recommend this man for is citizenship.

- Works well when under constant supervision and cornered like a rat in a trap.

- This man is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot.

- Only occasionally wets himself under pressure.